EDIT: A lot of people are coming to this post after searching Google for “help for pedophiles”. This post does not contain information about therapies available. I’ve had trouble finding good information on the internet, the only thing I can suggest is seeing a psychiatrist. If anyone knows of some good online resources, please put them in the comments and I’ll add them.
Pedophilia is seen as fantastically (almost supernaturally) evil because harm and disgust are intertwined here. The only reason someone who has sex with a child is immoral is the harm argument: the child can’t give informed consent. (Of course the idea of an age of consent, or even of judging consent case-by-case is a bit arbitrary, but let’s ignore that for now.) A separate category for pedophilia simply creates an outlet for us to vent our (invalid) arguments-from-disgust.
Let’s break the bubble with a story: A man living a “normal” married life started to one day experience sexual desires for little girls. So intense were these that he tried to act on them, until it was found he had a brain tumour which was causing these. The tumour was removed, he returned to normal. Not to be sensationalist, but this could happen to you tomorrow.
Two interesting parallels with historical gay rights arguments:
- Some say “who would choose to be gay, given what they’d have to go through?” This argument fails but makes sense for pedophiles. I’ll rephrase to avoid free-will traps: “what person who has sexual urges for children wouldn’t wish for the urges to go away?” Especially since they’re the most reviled member of society, to the point where a conviction is a death sentence. And yet we treat pedophiles as if they chose to become pedophiles (regardless of how absurd this is).
- An old Christian/Jewish/Muslim mantra: “there’s a difference between orientation and the sexual act; just because you have urges doesn’t mean you should act on them.” Again this is true for pedophilia. Some think calling it an orientation legitimises it but it merely states the fact that a pedophile’s brain is oriented for certain desires. Calling a pedophile who’s never acted on his/her desires immoral only makes sense from a moral disgust argument.
All pedophiles should seek professional help. Tens of thousands don’t because of stigma, and because of the [justified] fear that they’re just opening themselves up for legal/social/medical harassment. So the only way to reduce child sexual abuse is: (1)reduce stigma and eliminate hysteria (2)encourage people to seek help (3)spend actual research money on finding better treatments.
By imagining pedophiles as somehow “inherently” evil, we ignore what we know about the body/brain and revert to believing in ghosts & “essences”. The destructiveness of shrill moral panic (eg. British mob attacks pediatrician mistaking the term for a pedophile), is a great example of moral disgust actually causing more moral harm in the long run.
50 comments ↓
I’m with you on the stigma, and I would go so far as to ask you to retract “All pedophiles should seek professional help.” Why should they? If they are otherwise healthy individuals who are quite capable of not living out their urges, why should they have to seek treatment? What goes on in people’s heads should not be anyone’s business but their own. I’m sure most people have sexual fantasies that they’d never seek to realise, for whatever reason. There’s no reason why pedophiles should be treated differently. Only the ones who fear that they can’t control their urges should be encouraged to seek help.
My reasoning that pedophiles should seek help is that a person is rarely qualified to be the judge of whether they are able to keep their urges at bay. So this would be a special case since all cases of carrying out the urge would be wrong.
So is rape fantasies, and yet most people who are into BDSM would never dream of ACTUALLY raping anyone (or being raped, as the case my be). And no, I don’t think carrying out a staged rape scenario with a consenting adult is the same as actually carrying out a rape fantasy, as the fantasy would have included the thrill of it not being consensual.
Put it like this: If a guy (whose vanilla girlfriend won’t engage in BDSM stuff with him) is regularly fantasising about raping her because it really gets him off, but would never dream of doing it for real, does he need to seek help?
Fantasising about something or having urges is not the same as actually wanting to do it. Where do we draw the line? Should anyone who’s ever waited for a train and had the fleeting thought of putting their head on the rails have therapy? Anyone who’s ever held a kitten and realised that they could, so easily, twist its neck?
I realise though this is a sort of moot point as we can’t force anyone to admit they’re a pedophile in the first place. But I do think, if we want to ease the stigma, we shouldn’t make a blanket statement about who should seek therapy, but instead say “look, we know most people would never do something like that, but if you worry that you might, here’s a good therapist to go to.”
The only problem is because of the stigma we can’t say that most people who are pedophiles never carry these fantasies out. It could be that 80% of pedophiles do end up acting on these — in which case they should seek help. It would theoretically be the same for other types of fantasies that suggest a brain that is also capable of carrying them out (rape fantasies and jumping in front of trains may or may not be included in these)
I guess the difference is that people with rape fantasies are often still able to be aroused by other things and have sex lives that carry out other fantasies.
I think a very common makeup for a pedophile is to only be attracted to children — so to avoid carrying out their fantasy they would need to avoid carrying out 100% of their sexual desires — a more mean feat.
“I think a very common makeup for a pedophile is to only be attracted to children”
But how do we know this? The only pedophiles that have been studied are the ones that fit this description – the ones who commit crimes or seek help before they do because they have a problem. For all we know there are plenty of people out there who are attracted to children but can have normal sex as well. Essentially, the stigma has caused what might be a skewed view of this particular fetish, and we can’t know until the stigma is gone! It’s a bit of a catch 22 I suppose.
A guy I work for represented a sex offender (Fardon) who’s still in prison in QLD after serving his sentence because a bunch of ‘experts’ deemed him a risk. It’s called ‘preventive detention’ and is an executive, rather than judicial, function.. which is blatantly against our Constitution’s separation of powers.
If you’re interested, the relevant Act is: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/consol_act/dpoa2003399
This is a great example of how politicised this issue has become. Note that the Act is ONLY for sex offenders and not dangerous prisoners in general.
Felicia — I said I think so it’s my personal opinion. But we should definitely try find this out through research (for all types of sexual desires not just pedophilia)
Alex — it’s hard to make the argument that nobody should be detained in principle if they’re deemed a danger. But in actuality yes these cases are usually extremely biased.
Just read a good example of how ridiculous the hysteria can get: http://www.womanist-musings.com/2008/10/15-year-old-arrested-for-taking-nude.html
i first found out that my little brother (22) is a pedophile 2 years ago, and ive been going with him to therapy ever since
we have changed alot of therapysts, and with all due respect i dont think that therapy can help… most therapysts are ignorant to what causes pedophilia
the problem with therapy is that it deals with results, they say that pedophiles have problems with dealing with the adult world, that they are imotionaly unable to cope with an adult relationship. it is true, but that is only a result of their fear of the adult world accepting them
i have known my brother all my life, he had no social difficulties what so ever until he realised that he was a pedofile .
saying therapy is the answer is like saying that reverse therapy will make a normal person a pedophile . ( not all pedophiles have brain cancer you know )
my brother is attracted to teen children between the ages of 12-16, and he says that he knows alot of pedophiles that are attracted to the the same range of ages.
so i dont think that we should ignore the age of consent, alot of teens at the ages of 14-16 are aware of their sexuality and about what they want. that why i think that changing the legal age to 15 will help alot of pedophiles to live a “normal” life and will reduse child rape and will give pedophiles a “room to breath” and will actually prevent them from “hunting” really young kids
thanks for sharing your story. i can’t speak for others but when i mentioned therapy i meant a decent, well-developed clinical practice that treats the patients well and helps them to control their impulses esp. if their attraction is towards very young children. i understand such a therapy probably does not exist at the moment (or is very rare) and your story supports this. i guess my opinion is that we should still do our best to develop better therapeutic methods.
and i wasn’t suggesting that therapy can shift the desires themselves (although if hypothetically it is possible to “turn” a pedophile into a person with average sexual desires it does not follow that the reverse is true since the brain is a complicated process and if pedophilia represents a rare arrangement of neurons, creating this arrangement in most people might be very difficult)
not sure if 15 is the right age, but we should definitely have more of a debate on this — and be more aware of the problems of a rigid age of consent (eg. teenage girls who send nude photos of themselves to their boyfriends getting charged with child porn)
anyhow i wish you and your brother all the best in coping with this difficult and undeserved challenge
Good post. Tough subject.
We have been shaped by evolution to value youth as a positive, attractive quality, in women (girls) more than men. When the average life expectancy is 25 and almost half of all women die in childbirth you probably want a young girl, not long into puberty so you can try as many times as possible before either or both of you perish. You don’t want to wait until she is 18 or 21 before trying to start a family.
This is obviously not accepted now as we try to infantilise the population and extend childhood indefinitely. But we do punish people for having these basic biological urges. The ones that really need the treatment are the ones who are attracted to pre-pubescent children, there is no evolutionary excuse for that except that their desires (brains) are misfiring.
And the media has a lot to answer for in this too. One UK newspaper (The Sun) has an item called Page 3 where they have a topless girl (18-25) on page 3. This paper has been vociferous in their ‘kill the pedo’ type campaigning. Yet, back in the 1980’s they had a 16yo Sam Fox topless on Page 3. Hypocrites.
as far as i know pedophilia refers to people who are attracted to prepubescent girls/boys. someone who you described would have ephebophelia (eg. lolita is the classic example).
if you say that the only ones that need treatment are the pedophiles (not the ephebophiles), do you mean the age of consent should be lowered to match puberty so as not to “infantilise” the population?
there might be an urge to prefer women just after puberty but it doesn’t seem particularly strong in that most of those people still find women of an older age attractive — the difference with a pedophile is that they are usually attracted to children exclusively
I was using the generic or law enforcement definition which is simply someone under the local age of consent.
I am not saying the AOC should be lowered, as the mental capacity to consent is somewhat separate from the physical ability to have children.
If an adult (over AOC) cannot hold off until the person they are attracted to is over the AOC then they may need help. The exception to this is when the ages are very similar (17 and 15 say, if the AOC is 16.)
Basically if your desires for someone young are so strong that you cannot control yourself then you DO need help. We should be able to show restraint and keep our desires in check.
Reminds me of a recent court case where a man was sent to jail for 1330 years for molesting children:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/07/01/state/n055331D41.DTL
Whether you think of what he did, the shear impossibility of the sentence seems insane. It also seems immensely disproportionate to what rapists and murders get.
Now THAT’S a moral panic!
Hi,
I thought I would find some time to comment on the phenomena of Moral Panic towards Peadophilia, which appears to be related very closely to the current witch hunt against child pornography (child abuse material).
I can speak first hand as being a victim of this witch hunt, having been wrongfully accused of the crimes of possession of child exploitation material. The material that the police tried to convict me on consisted of a 24 year old woman, a well known adult pornography actress!
I was a victim of Operation Irenic, closely related to Operation Centurion in which the Australian Federal Police executed 300 search warrants, only to arrest 80 and proceed by summons in 20 cases (a total of 100), meaning that they get it wrong on the outset in 2 cases out of 3. Added to that, the successful conviction rate is approximately 62%, it means that just for Operation Centurion, there was a 79% failure rate.
During the fiasco that led to my being publicly named and shamed, the police contacted my employer where I was employed as a Forensic Psychologist at the time, to tell them of the nature of the charges – the same day I was arrested, then to the media where I was judged after being charged – NOT convicted. I was subject to public vigilante attacks, and my family including my own 7yo child was subject to public taunting!
How ironic it is that the police report that they are doing this to protect children, yet my own child was harmed seriously as a result of the police need to publicly name and shame victims like me!
For anyone interested, take a look at the website Inquisition21 in the UK, where they detail the systematic corruption that led to up to 1500 people being falsely accused of this crime, and where there is a current class action being undertaken on behalf of these victims (around 45 people in the UK committed suicide as a result – many of these were cleared after their deaths). When the class action commences later this year (09), it is expected that several wistleblowers will provide evidence of a world wide collusion among police services to convict as many people as possible regardless of their innocence or guilt.
As for the problem of peadophila, this has been carefully and systematically engendeerd by the Police and Politicians to change the laws related to the age of consent. The fact is, decision making ability of young people is not fully formed until the age of around 25 due to developmental changes. This starts at around 13 when the brain starts to ‘rewire’ forming adult like thinking. The real issue is the moral outrage of the thought police, who think that people should not be in a relationship with anyone 5 years or more younger than you are. The age of consent has changed over time, and is different in different states and countries. How can they all be right?
Moral panic is used as an instrument to buy votes, nothing more, nothing less. It is also used by the police to further their own cause of securing additional funding. Take a look at Inquisition21, and this is made quite clear with very convincing evidence for this. In Australia, the same is true.
My own experience includes being assaulted by police before my arrest. Having my Human Rights totally ignored. And now that the case is over – NOONE wants to listen to the violations that were perpetrated against me, because of the nature of the charges (that were withdrawn at the last minute). It means, I have NO human rights in this country, and no way to address the wrongs that were perpetrated against me by the Moral Police.
What a world we live in!
Thanks for the link — I’ll check out the website when I have a sec. For those interested, it’s here [http://www.inquisition21.com]
Just a few things that caught my attention from the outset:
1. In terms of police investigation I don’t think the fact that there were only 80 arrests out of 300 search warrants says anything bad about the police. It might be a perfectly reasonable ratio compared to other crimes. Are you saying this is by itself a problem or only when it’s accompanied by unjustified actions like publishing the names of people before an arrest has been made? I agree with the 2nd option but not the 1st.
2. Are you saying you disagree with any legislated age of consent? Because the fact that it’s different in different countries — even to the point of ludicrousness — does not speak against having an age of consent. In terms of brain development obviously we can’t wait until people are fully developed in their cognition at age 25 (some never get the long term planning thing anyway!).
Michael,
the fact that they get it wrong in so many cases means that their detection methods leave much to be desired. I know this because I also happen to be an ex-police officer – which also served me well in keeping me safe and for making the various complaints I’ve made since being cleared in court. The arresting officer (Federal Agent in this case) has already resigned ahead of the official finds of the investigation from which it is expected to be established that the guy fabricated evidence among some 24 other wrongdoings.
As for my comments that they get it wrong, when compared to drug offences for example, the police have approximately 89% successful conviction rate. In Child Pornography allegations, that goes down to 62%.
The problem stems from police not being qualified nor trained to make judgements about the ages of the people depicted in adult pornography. While we know the age of consent varies considerably around the world, what isn’t taken into consideration is the differences in appearance that different cultural groups have. For example, many asian women look much more petite and smaller than westerners. In my case, this was the criteria for the arrest!
The Australian Government changed the laws to make it easier to obtain convictions because originally the police had to prove the ages of the people depicted in images, and had to get them classified. Now, it goes on ‘what a reasonable person would think’, which is a problem in itself because what if the arresting officer is not a ‘reasonable person’. I know first hand that the Police Services around Australia are full of anti-porn biggots, albeit there are some good ones as well.
To have a total 79% failure rate in these sorts of investigations is wrong.
It might not mean anything to anyone, unless it happens to you. Because they use the name and shame approach to cases like this, it means you are convicted before you get to court by your local community, and the possibility for jury contamination is very high.
Lucky for me, I had a good Magistrate. Not known for her leniency, but fair. Her comments after the case was thrown out after just 30 minutes of court time was that she hoped I sued the police for what they did to me.
For those who think it can’t happen to you, just take a look at the Bart Simpson child porn case, or the case where the bloke is being done for the baby swinging video. These blokes face a lifetime ban on working with children, having to register as a sex offender, and of course a life time of stigma.
I don’t disagree with the legislated age of consent. I just disagree with the zealots who pursue cases wrongfully against perfectly innocent people. If guilty of such a crime, then so be it, do the crime do the time.
It’s the innocents I am worried about. Had I not had the means to pay for my defence ($25,000 – and that was just up to a committal trial), then I would be in goal as well.
There is much more to this than meets the eye, keep an eye out for news closer to the end of the year in the UK. There is a case about to go before the courts over there that will detail widespread corruption and collusion among the various police services.
As for the actions of the police here, it is AFP policy that they don’t publish the names and other identifying details of people accused of crimes. They have adopted the strategy as a way of metting out their own form of punishment against people accused of these crimes. I know this because it happened to me. Now I get the lifetime stigma, yet am quite innocent. The worst of it is that my 7yo son copped the bashings at school due to vigilante parents egging their kids on, and public taunting by ‘vigilante adults’ in our community. Quite ironic that the police and DPP say they are protecting children, yet do nothing to protect the innocent parties – including children of the falsely accused.
For anyone out there, if you are a bloke, have male children who are teenagers, don’t think you will talk your way out of it if they come looking for you!
Thanks for sharing [part of] your story.
I guess the biggest problem is that child porn laws are:
1. extremely emotive and highly charged
2. prone to moral panic
3. extremely subjective (eg. use of the “reasonable person” test)
When you put these 3 factors together with the ability to prosecute criminal cases, without the proper oversight it can easily turn into a miscarriage of justice on a massive scale.
You are right there Michael.
I think the general fear of terrorism has given license to Governments in general to respond to moral panics in ways we have never seen before.
Moral panics are nothing new in society, in fact if you track media articles dating back to the late 1800’s in Sydney you will find issues that sparked much moral disgust and fear. What is new is the shear speed in which this is done to a far wider audience who then have the ability to communicate their moral outrage very quickly.
There is also nothing new with peadophilia – nor is it any more prevalent today. What is new is an increased awareness and willingness to report. This too leads to a public perception of an ‘increasing problem’ and the need to ‘deal with it’.
Add to this – a general erosion of Human Rights, and together with the points you make above you have the potential to destroy lives for the sake of placating perceived fear as opposed to actual risk.
Cheers
KK
Hi, my life has been terrible due to having a little child I love very much. I got convicted for Child Porn when a police officer told me that i either plead guilty or they will be asking for the maximum sent. I was in South Korea when I think these or part of these child porn photos were downloaded. I got shown a terrible picture before court and told that it was found on my computer. I found out some 9 years later by a police officer that he was part of the team who came to my house. He is now head of the police unit for the child section and told me that the investigating officer at the time got kicked out.
I pleaded guilty because my wife told me that because they were offering a deal to remove everything I beleived it would happy. No criminal conviction, I get the computers back, I got the computes back and although the picture they showed me I had nightmares over …………..
……. however here is were my story is very sad.
I didn’t think much about it after a few years. Got a job with a bank. Never did it ever come up. Had a child, I love her to bits. The mother seperated. She took my daughter for 8 months, then I had to see my daughter at a contact center for years. But then gets worst. Then I had to travel 544km for 1 visitation when she lives 12 km away from me….. I went to the police station many times trying desperately hard for them to reinvestigate. I am aware of the CMC and the misconduct of the police officer. However the evidence I need is held with the mother. I really hope that we have a court case in Jan and she will admit to some things not knowing why I am asking the questions, as my friend died knowing some of the evidence (old age).
It is actually worst then this, however I am writing a book about it………. If you are in any circumstance like this then I would love to hear from you.
John, you need to contact some folks I know about. Take a look at OBE Investigators, they will check you out as there are lots of cops getting on blogs like this trying to obtain evidence. Also take a look at the site Inquisition21 (Just google them and they will come up).
I would like to have a chat to you personally, because mention of the CMC means you must live in my local. There are some major corruption issues at foot, but I need to check you out first to see if you are genuine before I reveal anything.
As it turns out, I’ve been invited to do my PhD on this subject, via an academic who is pretty keen to get some of this stuff published.
I can assure you that I am genuine. When I get to know you I will be more than willing to reveal who I am (been in the media unfortunately, so I am careful).
You also have some things to know about computer forensics, evidence, and how they try to fit people up OK. Get in contact at krowenone at hotmail dot com
KK I sent you an email did you get it ? (no subject) sent 21dec09
i am a.pedophile, im attracted to children between the ages of 2 & 8. i have no sexual feelings for adults. i know i can never have a sex life but its something iv learn to deal with. i would never do anything with a child becauase its not fair to introduce them to that kind of thing, they are too young to understand. i dont see myself as a risk to children i just wish other people could understand that.
James, good on you for recognising you have an issue. I would not classify it as a ‘problem’ since you are dealing with it in a responsible way.
With regards to issues of sexual attraction, if you want to deal with your issue and gain some sexual functionality, can I suggest visiting a good clinical psychologist who deals with issues like yours? Treatment is fairly successful and proven to work in most cases.
Cheers
KK
iv looked into seeing someone about it, i didnt choose to be like this but would i still be me if i saw someone and they managed to change me. there is one thing a dont get, you cant cure someone of being gay but because im attracted to children i have people trying to cure me and police control my life. is this how gays where treated before it became legal?
James,
At one time homosexuality was against the law for men (but never for women because it wasn’t recognised). There is still some descriminaton against being gay however it has never been considered so universally wrong as sexual activity with children.
One interesting thing is that the definition of peadophilia has changed over time. At one stage, it meant a person was sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. Being attracted to teenagers was actually defined differently. Then we have seen the Police and Politicians change definitions by the widespread application of the term peadophilia to a larger age group (currently up to 16, 17, and 18 depending on what state and what country you are in). Child pornography is now defined federally as being photographs of a person under the age of 18.
I believe the current movement against child pornography is being driven by moral panic, engendered by the various police services around the world, and there is good evidence to support the fact that the statistics and information they give out is grossly exaggerated and misleading. The common statement for example that child pornography is a ‘multibillion dollar industry’ has been proven to be false, and has it’s genesis in statements first laundered by the FBI. The reason it is done is to make the problem seem larger than life, more extreme than it actually is, to drum up support and gain funding for thier various agencies – and that has worked!
You can blame the police mainly, as well as the politicians for the public reactions against peadophilia, even those who do not act out on their feelings.
I don’t think it will ever be legalised. I for one would not want it to be legalised, or accepted. I do however hope for a society one day that will treat people with compassion and understanding, and do decent research into rehabilitation rather than taking an eye for an eye approach and outright punishing people.
Cheers
KK
i wouldnt want it to become legal, i too agree more research and understandin is needed. i think that a compramise would be good, child pornograpy involving only nudity and no sexual activity. obviously all properly supervised.
Let me just jump in briefly: James, you think child nudity is an acceptable compromise – really?! A child still can’t give informed consent and even though they weren’t touched I think this could well still cause heaps of psychological problems for them.
Ultimately I think the only solution is CGI porn and other forms of virtual reality which will only get more sophisticated as time goes by — this will probably end up being a haven for all people with fantasies that would hurt others if carried out.
Unfortunately I did glance at an article a while ago I believe that said this was being targeted along the same lines as child porn with real victims.
Michael, you are absolutely correct. In most countries virtual child porn is against the law. In some countries such as Australia, child porn in the form of a cartoon is illegal! There was a case there recently where a person was convicted of child pornography for having a porn cartoon of the Simpsons.
I personally have an issue with cartoons being considered as child porn, because it diminishes the seriousness of real child porn and it’s victims (we are talking about pornography, and not nudist mags here).
Unfortunately, as the definitions change, nudist magazines and movies are now being considered as child porn. That is because we have the dangerous situation where laws are being driven by moral zealots rather than reasonable balanced human beings.
Cheers
KK
all i want is for children to be safe and for there be something for those like me who dont want to hurt a child. i used to get nudist mags but a friend of mine was arresred for having them(he did eventually get the charges dropped) cgi would be a great idea and if done to the highest standard would earn whoever made it alot of money and hopefully help people stay away from the real thing. making cartoons and cgi type inmages/films illegal is just a joke as far as im concerned.
The other thing to keep in mind here is the fact that there has been virtually no research into the issue of treatment for sex offenders, particularly peadophiles.
The governments of the world gain much more from locking people up rather than treatment/rehabilitation, and this stinks. In fact, the Government is NOT interested in protecting children, they are only interested in ‘looking good’ to the masses so they will vote for them.
Take the recent case where that chap was wrongfully convicted of Child Sex Tourism in Australia. The Police deliberately neglected to obtain evidence that could have cleared this chap, froze his assets, and convicted him – sent him to goal. The result was this chap’s own young baby died because the family could not access money to pay for medication and medical treatment! Yet another child victim of the Police.
In my own case, I was wrongfully persued by the same police service, had the charges thrown out because the image was actually of a 24yo woman! As a result of the 10 months of agony I went through, including the public naming and shaming where I was subject to vigilante acts of violence, my own 7 and 17yo sons were both targeted by these vigilantes. Two more child victims of the Police!
All in all, a grossly exaggerated problem, driven by moral zealots who are interested in only one thing – money and power, and they do this by driving moral panic that keeps ordinary citizens fearful (lest their child be molested).
KK
iv never thought of it like that before. the police have questioned my little sisters( 5 & 11) four times and they have been for an internal exam twice. the police have traumatised them and they dont care about that. they just want someone to.lock up.
Exactly, they really don’t care about the welfare of your sisters. I bet they did not offer appropriate counselling or at least referral to appropriate counselling.
One interesting side issue in all this is the fact that both the UK and Australian police services came out after Operation Ore and the many witch hunts since then stating that they have carefully assessed the folks they arrested for suicide risk and referred onto counsellors. Another complete lie I’m afraid.
For a start, I know I wasn’t referred to counselling. The above statement came out when they were criticised for not sending folks to counselling after the many many people who did commit suicide came to light. In the UK, several people who committed suicide were actually cleared of any wrongdoing AFTER they killed themselves.
People in general minimise the impact an allegation like this has on an individual. Regardless of whether they are innocent or guilty, their lives are over, that’s it.
What the police are fighting at the moment are allegations of corruption in relation to these investigations (read Operations) because they knew a great many folks they arrested were actually victims of credit card fraud. They don’t care if a person is innocent or not, they only want to make their statistics look good.
The very sad and frightening thing in all this is that it could truly happen to anyone!
Now that they have fewer adult victims to persecute (sorry prosecute) they are going after teenagers. Now, the subject of sexting hasn’t really been discussed here properly.
I for one feel that a teen taking a photograph or being sent a photograph by their girlfriend or boyfriend should not be labelled as peadophiles or sex offenders, but that is the situation we have at the moment.
It really is an extension of teenage curiosity/sexual exploration, which has been around for thousands of years. The only difference these days is the use of technology that has become incorporated into such exploration.
In my view, it is a crime to criminalise children for this, and should be left up to the parents to deal with, not the police and the courts potentially labelling children as child sex offenders (sometimes for taking a photo of themselves!)
Cheers
KK
no they were not offered any counciling, they may have caused more trauma than me abusing them. iv heard alot about sexting recently. i just dont understand them, why go after teens who are just havin fun, they are no pedophiles yet they will be labelled as such for havin a pic of a gf/bf. what can they really do next
oh shit that sounds wrong. if i abused them not me abusing them. i would be hapoy if it remained illegal but the media and goverments stoped using it to create fear and hatred
Seems to me there’s a couple of issues here.
1. The police and a corrupt approach to investigating pedophilia. This certainly sounds like it needs an independent investigation. If the things that KK is referring to are true, then something is very rotten at the core of this. The real question there is Why?
2. Pedophilia and the age of consent. Lowering the age of consent to reduce pedophilia is like removing the NEED for consent to protect rapists. In other words, it’s a fucking stupid approach. Be honest, even at 16 how well did you know your own mind? How much peer pressure were you subjected to?
If a person is attracted to pre-pubescent kids, that is some miswiring in the brain happening. There’s no natural imperative for it, so it’s purely a breakdown of thought which causes trauma to the pedophile and potentially life damaging trauma to children. To compare this with the actions of consenting adults, as in the gay reference above, is ridiculous.
James said: “iv looked into seeing someone about it, i didnt choose to be like this but would i still be me if i saw someone and they managed to change me.”
No, you would be a better you. Not a you attracted to children. Do you really prefer that? You suffer from a very damaging condition that must cause you a lot of stress and heartache. Do you really want to go on like that and risk passing on that trauma multiplied to children?
Hi Alan,
yes I feel the need for an independent inquiry, however there are political reasons why that will probably never happen.
The real reason behind obtaining such fantastic arrest numbers is to support statistics for funding. The real issue in the UK for example out of Operation Ore was that the Police agency responsible for coordinating the arrests received a huge amount of funding in the wake of Operation Ore. The agency I am led to believe is currently undergoing privitisation, with proposed staff who are ex-police!
In general terms however, peadophilia is an issue that scares the living crap out of most people who are parents. This factor helps in maintaining the non questioning acceptance of the statistics the police (and politicians) hand out about the ‘problem’.
One really good example of the sorts of lies they sprout on about is the nature of the size of the problem. Even today, well after it has been debunked by reputable researchers, police services still go on about child pornography being a ‘multi-billion’ dollar industry. According to most police services around the world these days, most child pornography is produced by private circles of peadophiles who share the material and thus no money changes hands. The circles are usually very small, numbering usually no more than 10-15.
Regarding the so called comercial sites, apparently mainly in Europe, these were shut down some time ago. According to the Canadian police, most child pornography is produced in the USA and Canada these days and involve small operations.
Just to make something very clear as well, what is considered to be child porn these days can involve a 17 year old ‘model’ who poses in a bikini, if the image is intended to sexually arouse the viewer! This is because the definition of child pornography has expanded to young people under the age of 18. Years ago, newspapers published notorious page 3 girls in the UK who posed topless and were 16-17 years of age. Sam Fox is an excellent example. Today, if you have an old newspaper containing these images, you are guilty of possessing child pornography!
Regarding the age of consent and a person’s ability to consent to sexual activity, well that one is a difficult one. Basically, a person’s brain starts to re-wire from age 13 to adult type thinking. The rewiring starts at the back of the brain and finishes over many years at the frontal lobes (at around age 25). One could argue that a person does not have the full capacity to make decisions for themselves until the age of 25, yet the law almost universally has decided it is 18.
I know myself that as a teenager, even at 18, I was compulsive at times and did not take into consideration a lot of information in making my decisions.
The above issue of the brain rewiring and the issue of consent is a well known factor known by neuropsychologists for some time. Yet in some societies in the past, the age of consent was arrived at through social pressure (Australia for example reduced the age of majority from 21 to 18).
So, in effect, we have a situation where young people as teens will be sexually active, and certainly do, but have less capacity up until age 25 to foretell the consequences of their actions. So it begs the question, when is it really OK to allow young people to engage in sexual activity? Given this last point is moot since they will go ahead anyway regardless of any so called legal restrictions! The more it is outlawed, the more attractive it will seem!
Last point, when is child porn really child porn? We have examples of young people who are sexting being charged with child pornography even when the photograph is of themselves! I think not!
If you are really interested in the corruption issue, I’d urge you to visit the site Inquisition21 – it will raise a few eyebrows I’m sure.
Oh, and James, Alan is 100% correct. You’ve got nothing to loose by going and getting counselling. The best you can expect is to learn strategies to help you to cope with your situation. As they say, a problem shared is a problem halved.
Cheers
KK
OK, while there is a lot of moral panic in the area (and the sexting conviction craze is the most insane thing to have hit the US law courts in decades), the following sweeping generalisations seem implausible:
(1) law enforcement don’t care about child rape (and hence are just out to concoct charges for funding)
(2) child rape is grossly exaggerated and happens very rarely
This has some of the classic signs of cognitive bias, for instance this worldview is certainly self-serving for someone attracted to children so there should be special care taken — confirmation bias affects everyone especially for areas that are so personal. I think it’s almost a form of reverse moral panic against police investigation of pedophilia in general.
I wouldn’t worry about tabloid newspapers for accurate info but from what I know UNICEF is an organisation that does proper, scholarly research that is much less likely to be politically motivated than some mayor running for re-election in a town full of people from the Moral Majority. Checking out their stats on child trafficking and other forms of sex exploitation it seems that the problem is very large indeed: http://www.unicef.org/protection/index_exploitation.html
Alan: what’s “natural imperative”?
Natural as in biological.
Hi Alan,
if you are referring to my last entry, at no time did I ever state that Law Enforcement don’t care about child rape.
Also, at no time did I ever say the statistics on child rape are grossly exaggerated.
Neither do I like the implication in your statement that I am affected by a form of cognitive bias.
Child pornography is the issue that is grossly exaggerated, and this is supported by good critical analysis and academic research.
Chid rape is something that absolutely disgusts me. We clearly are talking about two different, however related issues. Child pornography and child rape. It is possible to rape a child and photograph it, which then becomes child pornography. The child rape can and does occur in the absence of child pornography. Child pornography can involve the taking of photographs of children, yet not involve the act of rape. Hence while not mutually exclusive subsets, there is some overlap of the two types of criminal history. It is further complicated by the fact that what we are talking about in terms of peadophilia has been distorted to include young people up to the age of 18 (which is included in police statistics by the way). Peadophilia is a term that can not be applied to any sexual interest in a person past puberty. There is another psychological term applied to people attracted to young people in their teens!
I am acutely aware of the psychological effects of both being the victim of sexual abuse, as well as being the perpetrator. Not only that, but I also know first hand what it is like being the victim of false charges of child pornography. You see, my professional and personal background place me in a very unique position.
The ‘cognitive bias’ you refer to in your post is actually a ’selection bias’ I know I experience at the moment. This means that I will choose to look for evidence to support the claims of corruption I have personally experienced. I know that doesn’t mean that widespread child sexual abuse doesn’t exist. What it means is that I will naturally look for similar cases to mine.
My professional background just happens to have been (note have been due to not being able to work in the area since this happened to me) is as a forensic psychologist. At the time of my false arrest, I was working in Corrections dealing with some of the worst of the worst criminals. Yes, I can confirm that there are some pretty dangerous and sick individuals out there who do terrible things to children. I’ve had to listen to thier stories when doing assessments on them. Having to listen to thier stories however has not made me ’support’ them in any way on the basis of their criminal behaviour, however I still hold onto the belief that everyone in this world deserves to be treated ethically, and that they do have certain rights that are not taken away from them on the basis of what they have done. The punishment is being incarcerated, and should never be as a result of vigilante reactions. This is why we have courts and goals!
I’ve also assisted quite a few victims of child sexual abuse. I’ve done this through counselling, as well as assessments for court when they seek compensation. I agree that some people are greatly affected by their experience of abuse. At times I went home and cried personally to myself because of some of the horrible stories I have heard. You can not help taking on some of the victim’s experience (no doubt this happens to cops dealing with these sorts of investigations – leading to the sort of Cognative Bias you allude to).
As it turns out, I also have a history of being a Police Officer – albeit for only 3 1/2 years, and a long while ago. I actually left because of a number of corruption issues I witnessed (not related to this topic), as well as waking up to the fact that the Police Service attracts certain people who may have psychological issues to start with about power. What my experience has done however has given me a little insight into the mind of a cop.
When you talk about cognitive bias, this could be applied to police dealing with difficult investigations. One thing that does seem to occur is when a person is faced with seeing such abuse day in and day out, it does tend to push one into looking for things because that’s what is expected (Selection Bias, which is actually a form of Cognative Bias)!
The issue of Child Sexual Abuse should never ever be taken lightly. It does occur – and I absolutely take that as a given fact, and it is definitely much more widespread than what is even reported in the tabloids.
In the case of child pornography however, we are talking about an issue that I believe, for good reason, is grossly exaggerated. Not because the incidence is under or over reported, not because I or anyone else has a cognitive bias or selection bias, but because the police often get things wrong.
Child pornography is definitely a problem, there is no argument about that at all. Enough bad guys get caught to support that, and in some cases, the police when adequately resourced, trained and balanced in their perspective, do a great job.
What has tended to happen is that the ‘experts’ are undertrained, under resourced, and on top of that tend to go after ‘easy targets’ instead of the real crims.
Just to place things into perspective using actual police statistics that can be verified: During Operation Irenic in Australia, 303 search warrants were issued after a tip off from Interpol gave information to the Australian Federal Police consisting of ISP addresses that apparently accessed a site where Child Pornography was posted maliciously.
Out of the 303 search warrants, only 80 arrests were made, and 20 matters proceded to trial by summons. In effect, 100 people out of 303 investigations! Out of those 100, the DPP issued statistics that stated convictions resulted in 62% (nice numbers) and the reason they gave was that in the 38 cases that were dismissed, they could not prove the ages of the people concerned due to the subjects in the said pornography being of Asian descent and enough doubt was cast on the case to make a conviction unsafe or unreliable.
So, out of the original 303 investigations where searches were carried out, 62 people were convicted. During the operation, 3 people committed suicide – a small fatality rate of just under 1%. Of those who committed suicide, little is known about their circumstances or their cases except what the police have stated in the tabloids. They did however make a statement about how they ‘assess’ those accused or arrested for this crime for suicide risk. I do happen to know for a fact that this statement is an outright lie. I was never assessed for risk of suicide, nor has any of the other people I know who were arrested and aquitted ever been assessed for suicide!
Most people in my circumstances just ‘go away’ hoping to get thier lives back in order. Unfortunately that does not happen. One of my coping mechanisms is to ‘intellectualise’ the issue and research it in the hope that I will gain some answers for what happened to me.
I am also driven by an exaggerated sense of justice and ethics. This is because when I did start digging, I uncovered very significant issues that were just plainly wrong. These issues are currently under investigation and pretty close to being resolved. The police ethical standards unit have substantiated several things, including that the police who arrested me falsified their statements by withholding exculplitory evidence that could have cleared me instantly, they falsified the transcript of the actual search of my house, they conspired to cover up the assault that happened to me by one of the cops at my house (they recorded this), and a total of 22 other serious issues occured during the ‘investigation’ against me.
Fortunately, I had enough nouse to keep quiet. I recognised certain things in two of the police concerned, and that was the level of disgust they had for what they were investigating. When they did not find the files they were looking for (and by all accounts the descriptions they gave were disgusting), they did find a legitimate adult movie clip – which they used to arrest me on and to examine my computer further.
They did not find anything else. Their search was extremely thorough, and the computer tech they had on the day suspected that I was the victim of someone tapping into my wireless router.
I personally know that in the Police Service here, promotions are based on successful arrest rates. There is a lot of pressure to ‘perform’. This leads to yet another bias, because no one wants a cop who doesn’t catch any bad guys do we?
When I joined the Police Service as a young guy, I was full of ethics and idealistic thinking. I actually believed (still do – very strongly) that the job of a Police Officer is to investigate, gather evidence, and if the evidence does not support a prosecution (clears a person) then you have done your job properly. At the end of the day, Police do so much more than this, however the core business of Police in bringing Crims to justice is blurred by a huge range of factors.
I have never subscribed to the view that Police play a part in acting as Judge and Jury. They clearly do this when they adopt the strategy of naming and shaming an accused. In effect, a named and shamed accused is not afforded the presumption of innocence and is pronounced guilty by the media and public who just lap this stuff up.
Perhaps I’m a little bit ‘old world’ in still holding onto my beliefs, but at the end of the day I will not give up my beliefs for anyone.
When working at the Goal I was at before my wrongful arrest, I had an incident happen that illustrated the bias I am talking about above quite nicely. One job we had was to assess offenders – including child sex offenders and child pornography offenders for treatment programs. When doing this, you get to hear their stories, and a common reaction by the psych or counsellor would be to come back to the office and ’sound off’ about what they heard, making judgement statements about the person they just interviewed. This happened one day, and I offered some insight spontaneously to my colleagues who were listening to the story. I said, you know, this person was once innocent. He was a baby once, held by his mother who must have had hopes and dreams about her totally innocent child. I wonder what happened along the way to have made this person commit such a crime? We all start out as innocent human beings, some choose to do things that are wrong and abhorrent, others choose a different pathway.
In terms of how peadophiles are treated, which is what the genesis of this thread was all about initially. Taking a totally punative approach to the issue negates any possibility of finding effective treatments and changing behaviour. In terms of how people are treated by the public (of which I had first hand experience), there is additional punishment prior to a person being found guilty (or innocent). The risk, given the sorts of statistics above is that a totally innocent person could be treated badly by the public simply because of an accusation, not proven fact.
The legal system is far from perfect, take the case of the last person who was hanged in Australia. He was found to be innocent after they administered the punishment. It’s a little hard to say you are sorry, after the punishment has been administered eh?
Same goes for people accused of child sex crimes. In the Western world (with the exception of France and maybe a couple of others) one is presumed innocent until proven guilty. That means that a person has the right to the presumption of innocence, and the Police adopting the strategy of naming and shaming people on the basis of an arrest (an accusation that has not been proven as yet) is wrong because it departs from the presumption of innocence.
The fact that it involves a sexual crime against children exacerbates the matter, simply because it invokes significant emotional feelings in most of us (meaning the public).
In essence, if a person is even accused of a crime such as child pornography and later proven to be cleared, your life is over. An accusation in this case is enough to ruin your life regardless of your innocence (smoking gun approach?), your rights are disregarded, you get assaulted by vigilante members of the public, you lose your career, and most times you lose your family. Sometimes you lose your life, because as these realities become apparent, it becomes impossible to deal with and suicide becomes a viable solution for the extent of the pain caused by being falsely accused.
It’s not an issue one can bring up with most people either, so support is in most cases completely lacking.
Here in lies the heart of the issue for anyone affected by the public reactions to such crimes and accusations. The mere hint that a person has been accused of a crime against a child leads to general feelings of abhorence and disgust. Open your mouth, and you get shot down. Try to state facts and statistics, people shoot you down (or try to). Try and state your case as to why you are innocent, – well after all there was an accusation, and the police get it right 100% of the time don’t they – therefor lets treat this person like they are guilty! Lets ignore his Human Rights. Lets ignore the fact that he is entitled to the presumption of innocence. Lets just persecute him, because it’s the ‘rightous’ thing to do. (Note I said rightous, not right!).
It’s a very complex issue. No one has the answer, and most people (myself included) struggle with the emotional reactions the issue envokes.
What is needed, is open discussion to examine the issues. There is no place for dogma, nor is there any place for making presumptions based on mere emotions alone.
Fear is the factor behind much of the emotional reactions bought out by discussions like this. Recognise it, examine the facts, don’t accept what anyone says as fact, unless it can be verified. Find out what is actually going on out there in terms of actual people’s experiences (such as my own for example).
At the end of the day just keep in mind the following statements:
Lack of evidence is not evidence!
Having an opinion based on actual experience, although anecdotal, is not invalidated by the experience. Though hard to generalise (impossible in fact), it should provide a genesis for further exploration of the facts and research.
Cheers, KK
That’s the longest “comment” I’ve ever seen on a blog. And for the record, although you addressed it to me, you’re actually responding to Michael’s post.
Just briefly, KK I was referring to statements like this — and I quote:
“In fact, the Government is NOT interested in protecting children, they are only interested in ‘looking good’ to the masses so they will vote for them.”
But my response was directed at the last few comments and not just ones by you.
As for you being offended at the implication that you suffer from cognitive bias, isn’t that a bit like being offended at the implications of being an ape? All humans are apes and all humans are affected by cognitive biases — that’s not controvercial.
But more specifically when I encounter a quote like the one I just mentioned, it certainly does make me think about the potential biases of the person who said it.
Sorry, I forgot to address the issue of ‘police don’t care about child rape’.
What I was on about is the fact that police don’t give a damn about the child victims of investigation (naming and shaming) fallouts. In my case, my two children were the victims of vigilante reactions. Where were the police then to protect them?
In the case of that chap wrongly sent to goal for child sex tourism (it’s a huge case in Australia at the moment that is disgusting in terms of the conduct of the police and prosecutor), the man’s child died as a result of not being able to pay for medication due to having his assets frozen by the police! Where were the police when this child died?
The real victims in these sorts of cases are actually hidden, that is what I am on about here.
At no time did I ever say they don’t care about child rape. These victims deserve the time and expertise of the police to bring perpetrators to justice, as well as rescue the victims.
What needs to happen however is to observe an accused’s rights, as well as thier children.
I personally think, that when an accused has children, thier rights should be paramount and equal to the victim of child rape/pornography.
This is easily achievable while seeing justice to be done. Naming an accused before they are convicted is irresponsible and should be avoided. Even when convicted, it should be enough for the public to know that a perpetrator got sent to goal. Lets leave the families out of it eh?
Cheers
KK
Sorry Alan, I had actually meant to address my response to Michael.
Sorry too folks for the extra long post. It is clearly an issue that is complicated, and to do it justice the issues need to be explored in thier entirity, not just piecemeal.
In terms of my comment: “In fact, the Government is NOT interested in protecting children, they are only interested in ‘looking good’ to the masses so they will vote for them.”
Governments are not Police. Police are only the instruments of Governments. If the Government was truly interested in protecting children, then they would take steps to protect the children of people accused of these sorts of crimes. They do, after all have an obligation under the United Nations Convention of the Rights of the Child to do so, even if they are the children of someone accused of a crime.
As for the statistics promoted by UNICEF, if you do your research on media releases made by the various Police Services around the world, you will find it blotted with statistics that have been debunked. In fact, there is evidence to highlight that some of the statistics are actually made up. Take a look at the paper ‘Laundering Statistics’ for some great stuff here.
While I have no doubt the statistics provided by UNICEF are accurate, you will note that they often use the terms ‘estimated’ and so on. The surveys they publish are great, but unfortunately they are not related to policing statistics in the Western World.
I think this subject deserves looking at further, and will get back with some good links and articles to reference what I am talking about.
Cheers
KK
You all have got to be kidding!!!!!!!! I know victims of these monstors and have served time with Robert John Fardon! I’m sure you all know who this guy is!
It has been proven that pedophilia is NOT a mental illness, It is a desire to have sex with children as young as toddlers and sometimes babies.
I’m 100% positive that none of you equal rights bleeding hearts have never been subject to these “people” and I use the term lightly. Your children have never been a victim of one of these “urges”. If you had, you would be singing different tune.
Why is it that I rob a bank and serve seven years, Where all I took was money and didn’t physically hurt anyone, and your average child rapist is lucky to serve 3 years? You can fuck my kids but don’t you dare steal my money! It’s bleeding hearts like you that keep the maximum penalties for these type of offenses so low.
I’m sure I have pissed off some of you and I really don’t care because the truth hurts. Fardon was and is a piece of shit and doesn’t deserve to be alive. I spent more than a year with him against my every urge and desire not to pull the limbs from his body, I succeeded in curbing those needs, Why cant pedophiles curb theirs? Because they don’t want to. That is why they need to be tracked, monitopred and God willing executed.
You all make me sick, If your kid was raped and murdered, you wouldn’t be here talking rubbish and validating their rights to fuck children! Thats exactly what you are doing!
I am so angry right now. Feel free to debate me, I actually know what I am talking about, life experience with this, You all know shit and your writings only prove that.
I’m even happy to put my REAL name at the bottom of this… unlike most!
Hi Jason — what specific statement(s) do you have a problem with?
As for it not being a mental illness, it’s in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.
Hi Jason,
from what I can see, no one is actually advocating for peadophilia here. Nor is anyone advocating for the systematic murder of peadophiles.
In Australia, there is a case where a person was actually goaled on the basis of wrong evidence, and he spent 1,000 days in goal for a crime he did not commit. During the process, the police froze his assets, and as a result of that his 2 year old daughter died because the family could not afford to see a doctor or pay for medication. He was the victim of a false allegation driven by the need of the complainant to obtain compensation. When the case was finally heard on appeal, and evidence was provided by a Government Agency to prove he was not in the location where the complainant said he was, he was freed. During the process, his business was lost, his daughter died as stated above, and he has suffered considerably.
Clearly, people who are actually guilty of this heinous crime deserve to be punished, however they also have the right to a fair trial, and to be treated fairly and their human rights observed. The result if this is not observed is disasterous for both the person and his/her family OK.
The other main point is that while there are examples of people committing crimes against children getting off lightly, there are also other examples of people who receive big sentences as the trend appears to be that they are getting more severe as public pressure mounts.
Finally, it is not up to any member of the public, nor a victim, to punish an offender. This is why we have courts, and why we insist on fair trials, so that offenders are treated the same. No one deserves a death sentence, no one should ever be punished by vigilantes.
I understand that you are very emotional about what has happened to you.
Also, Michael, the DSM has been riddled with ‘mistakes’ in it’s history. For example the first edition included homosexuality as a Mental Illness however it has been revised out of it now. Likewise, I don’t think peadophilia is a mental illness, but rather it is a psychological condition.
Jason, just one last point. What would you propose to do to a 15 year old girl who takes a photograph of her self and distribute it on the Internet, or by mobile phone as ’sexting’. Or, what would you propose to do to a 16 or 17 year old young man who has sex with a girl just one week short of her age of consent birthday? Both of these situations are crimes under present legislation in most Western Countries, and would lable both as sex offenders who would have to register on the Sex Offenders Register and be banned from working with children. These are the sorts of issues being debated here mate.
Cheers
KK
I am a convicted and registered sex offender in the U.S. and whereas I am still within this system please allow me some anonymity. Let me start off my story by saying there is hope for a reprogramming of the mind. I do understand the anger of previous posters. I do not however agree that death is a reasonable punishment for this one size fits all sentencing. There are people who are registered as sex offenders in the U.S. who were arrested for urinating outside while drunk. Should they be put to death now because they are listed on the same site as these truly broken (and yes possibly pure evil) people who commit child rape? Japanese society has it a little better they believe that a person can have an Epiphany and be a completely different person afterward so after paying for their crime people are not judged on the past. I did not commit the crime I was charged with however if my mom were to continue paying for my legal fees she was going to loose her house so I copped a plea as it were. I simply did not have Michael Jackson or OJ Simpson money. I did commit a lesser crime and I had a bleeding heart about it and truly wanted help so part of the deal for my plea was to go to a jail where I could still attend counseling. I was the only person who was an offender who ever requested to go to this counseling program. I would like to be clear here this system worked. The U.S. government let this counseling system stop due to lack of funds this also is truly criminal. Being recovered evil I Know evil and believe me both our systems are evil from the builder burg group picking your leader and mine down to the jail purchaser approving the purchase of a box of 200 pencils for 200 dollars corruption is the norm. In the U.S. some states get a majority of their funding from the federal government for imprisoning their own people. Afterward as a felon working is almost impossible. I know even Taco Bell turned me down. People wonder why the economy is messed up heh.
I was the lucky one after eight years of counseling I was pretty much cured it has been decades now and I have never harmed anyone. The program I went to was the starting point the individual counselor I went to was the mid point and my own experimenting in the reprogramming of the mind were the final cure for me. I of course had an epiphany or two of my own. One of these being when my daughter was born I understood agape love. I am writing all of this because apparently people come here looking for help in counseling choices. I would encourage those that truly want to change to consider the same path I did if you can find a program like the one I attended. The program I attended had offenders, AMACS (adults molested as children), and parents of children that were molested all would meet in guided group setting together. This part of the program was tough. Being in group having to witness thirty five year old women breaking down because of the pain and choices they had made due to the chain of events before and since they were molested and to realize that my victim could go through the same was awakening to say the least. Having the anger of the parents directed at me, the pure rage is hard to describe but was necessary. The hardest on myself and others though were the other offenders we could tell when the other offenders were not doing their work. I have seen some offenders in this program who I would consider evil you could see the hatred and lust on their face like a mask, but they were the vast minority. I have met hundreds of amacs, offenders, and parents of children who were molested. I am happy to say that after seeing the work that I did, the changes I made through this therapy, I had great friends in all three groups. We would all meet and eat together a little surreal but we humans are social creatures and through shared experiences we had become friends.
The individual counselor was important to me to keep trying to work within this broken society to work on building a support group and healthy relationships. The normal stuff for one who was molested and had become an offender and just wanted to live in my country.
Finally I come to the reprogramming of the mind. When I was molested I felt the revolting touch but I didn’t think that I was doing that to my victim. I made excuses and just wasn’t the adult that I needed to be in the situation. If I had had a childhood and some therapy I might have made that connection and my life would be very different today. I was very young myself but I was the adult and I accept responsibility for what I actually did. I say this because I want to make it clear that you cannot jump to this work until you have done the necessary ground work needed otherwise you can fall into porn addiction or worse trading one sickness for another. Children are sexualized in almost all societies. Genetically we are drawn to the best looking of the opposite sex for procreation and younger and younger models and singers/performers are being portrayed as the ideal. We are being programed by media. This in conjunction with the chain of events that shape all of our sexualities/personalities in our own reality tunnels during our development brings us to the present messed up state of being many find themselves in. For those who find the very young attractive it is most important to change your orientation this can be accomplished but the walk is hard. First of all stop watching T.V. for a while. Secondly the use of porn and mental imagery during masturbation or mental imagery during coitus. The release of serotonin by the brain during orgasm is an addictive experience as almost everyone knows. Gradually change the masturbation material or fantasy used to primarily mature porn or fantasy speak out loud during the experience . Allow what you need to be safe (give to yourself so you don’t take) in fantasy only for the cathartic effect ( I do not endorse child porn ) see
http://newgon.com/wiki/Research:_Child_Pornography
It is also paramount to see children as totally nonsexual the best way to do this is Systematic Desensitization (see reference articles) what you can do (depending upon your country and the laws therein) if you have not committed a crime is to join nudist groups. Seeing people naked in a non sexual way takes away the allure allowing a normalization of the sex drive. This could be done just by seeing pictures. Large parties where most are naked yet still non sexual are also a good way to desensitize and become less fixated. However you do it, it must be nonsexual. If you feel sexual at all and cannot use the relaxation process taught in desensitization remove yourself period. I would love to say never go to sites such as preteen modeling sites or the like even though these sites are legal and the children are clothed it is the sexualization of minors that objectifies them and reduces their humanity in an offenders or potential offenders eyes allowing the continued cycle of abuse. IMHO these sites are exponentially worse than any porn site due to the fact that the come hither looks and scantly clad real children reinforces the very programing that anyone seeking counseling should be trying to undo. If you have been charged however these might be your only option for desensitization material due to the potential legal issues you must make your own decisions based on your own research or lawyers advice. I take no responsibility for your actions. This is not the only course of treatment and might not be right for you. Maybe a 12 step program would be better for people like sex addicts or you could even choose some of the chemical castration options spoken in the reference material one thing I have learned is to try not to judge. I believe becoming aware of your physiological reactions such as breathing and heart rate as tought in Systematic Desensitization and understanding your own red flags through counseling and giving to yourself (whatever that is ie masturbation, going to a movie, working less, reducing stress) so you don’t end up taking/acting out upon can be important. It can eventually become natural to see children as children innocent and deserving of their childhood. Once you learn how to give/guide to/for yourself your brain lets go of the need to give/take (ie compulsive behavior) for itself. So give to yourself whatever you need in fantasy as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone but program your mind through conscious repetition and the release of serotonin to desire more mature partners. This might seem counter intuitive and I don’t suggest anything here just offer my opinions for your consideration. It is a wise man who learns from his own mistakes it is a wiser man who learns from others.
ref#s
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V5W-4608P85-3F&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F1980&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1388441784&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=24097c0a21ff028959a93c4ad01d0a11
http://www.health.am/sex/more/pedophilia_imaginal_desensitization/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systematic_desensitization
http://www.guidetopsychology.com/sysden.htm
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