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	<title>Comments on: Is There More To What We See?</title>
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		<title>By: Friday Link Dump &#8211; &#8216;Think of the Children!&#8217; Edition &#171; Dead Homer Society</title>
		<link>http://anadder.com/is-there-more-to-what-we-see/comment-page-1#comment-16507</link>
		<dc:creator>Friday Link Dump &#8211; &#8216;Think of the Children!&#8217; Edition &#171; Dead Homer Society</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Sep 2009 16:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Is There More To What We See? &#8211; An enjoyably skeptical look at Marge Simpson&#8217;s belief in angels (via Cubik&#8217;s Rube). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Is There More To What We See? &#8211; An enjoyably skeptical look at Marge Simpson&#8217;s belief in angels (via Cubik&#8217;s Rube). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The 119th Skeptics&#8217; Circle &#171; Cubik&#8217;s Rube</title>
		<link>http://anadder.com/is-there-more-to-what-we-see/comment-page-1#comment-16421</link>
		<dc:creator>The 119th Skeptics&#8217; Circle &#171; Cubik&#8217;s Rube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anadder.com/?p=1341#comment-16421</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;More than you could ever comprehend,&#8221; he intoned. &#8220;But if it is beyond your knowledge, then why claim to know of it? That which can be known should be enough to inspire passion in anyone with a true curiosity about th....&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;More than you could ever comprehend,&#8221; he intoned. &#8220;But if it is beyond your knowledge, then why claim to know of it? That which can be known should be enough to inspire passion in anyone with a true curiosity about th&#8230;.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The 119th Skeptics&#8217; Circle &#8211; Busy Person&#8217;s Edition &#171; Cubik&#8217;s Rube</title>
		<link>http://anadder.com/is-there-more-to-what-we-see/comment-page-1#comment-16420</link>
		<dc:creator>The 119th Skeptics&#8217; Circle &#8211; Busy Person&#8217;s Edition &#171; Cubik&#8217;s Rube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Sep 2009 11:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Is There More To What We See?, posted at a Nadder! A critical look at Marge Simpson&#8217;s philosophy of life. It might be trivial if millions of people didn&#8217;t share it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Is There More To What We See?, posted at a Nadder! A critical look at Marge Simpson&#8217;s philosophy of life. It might be trivial if millions of people didn&#8217;t share it. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Takis Konstantopoulos</title>
		<link>http://anadder.com/is-there-more-to-what-we-see/comment-page-1#comment-14420</link>
		<dc:creator>Takis Konstantopoulos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 11:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anadder.com/?p=1341#comment-14420</guid>
		<description>Thank you very much. Even though it is, as you say, common sense, it&#039;s always good to have some scientific support. The pointer you gave me is great, especially the first paragraph.

As a side remark, lots of things are common sense but &lt;b&gt;rigorously&lt;/b&gt; proving them can be hard. For instance, in geometry, it is common sense that a simple closed curve in the plane (i.e. a loop which starts and ends at the same point without intersecting itself) separates the plane into two disjoint regions. It&#039;s called Jordan cuve theorem and it is a tough cookie.

Anyway, I side-tracked again. You also reminded me of the Socratic dictum: One thing I know; that I know nothing (ΕΝ ΟΙΔΑ ΟΤΙ ΟΥΔΕΝ ΟΙΔΑ).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very much. Even though it is, as you say, common sense, it&#8217;s always good to have some scientific support. The pointer you gave me is great, especially the first paragraph.</p>
<p>As a side remark, lots of things are common sense but <b>rigorously</b> proving them can be hard. For instance, in geometry, it is common sense that a simple closed curve in the plane (i.e. a loop which starts and ends at the same point without intersecting itself) separates the plane into two disjoint regions. It&#8217;s called Jordan cuve theorem and it is a tough cookie.</p>
<p>Anyway, I side-tracked again. You also reminded me of the Socratic dictum: One thing I know; that I know nothing (ΕΝ ΟΙΔΑ ΟΤΙ ΟΥΔΕΝ ΟΙΔΑ).</p>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://anadder.com/is-there-more-to-what-we-see/comment-page-1#comment-14411</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 09:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anadder.com/?p=1341#comment-14411</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve found the name of this effect:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

It&#039;s common sense really: when you don&#039;t know something, you don&#039;t know that you don&#039;t know it. We all fall prey to this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve found the name of this effect:<br />
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s common sense really: when you don&#8217;t know something, you don&#8217;t know that you don&#8217;t know it. We all fall prey to this.</p>
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		<title>By: Takis Konstantopoulos</title>
		<link>http://anadder.com/is-there-more-to-what-we-see/comment-page-1#comment-14383</link>
		<dc:creator>Takis Konstantopoulos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 23:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anadder.com/?p=1341#comment-14383</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;There’s a famous effect in psychology that states that when you’re incompetent in some area of knowledge you are also incompetent to evaluate your incompetence and hence think yourself competent.&lt;/i&gt;

Wonderful! I was not aware that this had been studied in the field of psychology, but it is definitely something I observe daily. I would like to learn more about the phenomenon, so any references/pointers would be appreciated.

&lt;i&gt;This is how religious falsities often perpetuate. &lt;/i&gt;

And talking about religion, the above also reminds me of a similar phenomenon which (lots of) religious people possess. Namely, because they think that god is behind them and because they feel that they have the right religion and, by extension, the right morality, they often judge others in domains unrelated to religion. They dictate how others should behave and they feel justified for this. I think it&#039;s called self-righteousness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>There’s a famous effect in psychology that states that when you’re incompetent in some area of knowledge you are also incompetent to evaluate your incompetence and hence think yourself competent.</i></p>
<p>Wonderful! I was not aware that this had been studied in the field of psychology, but it is definitely something I observe daily. I would like to learn more about the phenomenon, so any references/pointers would be appreciated.</p>
<p><i>This is how religious falsities often perpetuate. </i></p>
<p>And talking about religion, the above also reminds me of a similar phenomenon which (lots of) religious people possess. Namely, because they think that god is behind them and because they feel that they have the right religion and, by extension, the right morality, they often judge others in domains unrelated to religion. They dictate how others should behave and they feel justified for this. I think it&#8217;s called self-righteousness.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://anadder.com/is-there-more-to-what-we-see/comment-page-1#comment-14169</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anadder.com/?p=1341#comment-14169</guid>
		<description>Good point -- I didn&#039;t mention the theory-loading of facts (or the preconceptions we&#039;re biologically wired to have etc) but this is also an important side to the argument.

Of course there is no *psychological* difference to Tony Blair believing he knows something about the world and acting on it and someone we consider more rational -- so I don&#039;t think we can blame him for that.

There&#039;s a famous effect in psychology that states that when you&#039;re incompetent in some area of knowledge you are also incompetent to evaluate your incompetence and hence think yourself competent. This is how religious falsities often perpetuate. We all have this cognitive bias whether we&#039;re religious or not but some forms of religious thought are an extreme example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point &#8212; I didn&#8217;t mention the theory-loading of facts (or the preconceptions we&#8217;re biologically wired to have etc) but this is also an important side to the argument.</p>
<p>Of course there is no *psychological* difference to Tony Blair believing he knows something about the world and acting on it and someone we consider more rational &#8212; so I don&#8217;t think we can blame him for that.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a famous effect in psychology that states that when you&#8217;re incompetent in some area of knowledge you are also incompetent to evaluate your incompetence and hence think yourself competent. This is how religious falsities often perpetuate. We all have this cognitive bias whether we&#8217;re religious or not but some forms of religious thought are an extreme example.</p>
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		<title>By: Takis Konstantopoulos</title>
		<link>http://anadder.com/is-there-more-to-what-we-see/comment-page-1#comment-14139</link>
		<dc:creator>Takis Konstantopoulos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 18:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://anadder.com/?p=1341#comment-14139</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Is it really that crazy to find such stuff more interesting and profound than angels?&lt;/i&gt;

Not at all, and you know it, of course. The crazy thing is that the majority of people (enlightened academics included) cannot understand that our perception (and by this I mean anything we can see, think, understand) is very limited.

It is limited for the reasons you point out but also because each one of us sees the world through a filter, the filter of his/her &quot;knowledge/cognition&quot;.

It is POSSIBLE to train this filter and (greatly) enlarge the things we can &quot;see&quot;.

A (good) musician can hear things I can&#039;t. I am convinced that a good composer can &quot;see&quot; music; much more deeply than I can (I am an amateur classical guitarist).

A (good) film director can perceive a very complicated scene before it even gets realized.

A (good) mathematician can see lots of things in the world that are utterly invisible to the untrained mind. With mathematics we enlarge (and I can assure anyone it is the case!) the way we see and understand the world; and we can do so without even solving equations (contrary to the popular belief that a mathematician deals with symbols and equations).

So the point is: how can Lisa&#039;s mom or George W Bush or &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tonyblairfaithfoundation.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tony Blair&lt;/a&gt; or any other similar moron claim they can understand the world and (what is worse) ACT FOOLISHLY/STUPIDLY because of their beliefs?

I am not asking them to learn mathematics or music. That would be too much to ask. I am asking them to try to understand that the way Homo Sapiens can perceive the world is much deeper than they can.

Furthermore, they should understand that, regardless of where Evolution actually takes us, there will always be something we cannot perceive; or at least that the possibility that this is the case exists; and that this is not because of Angels or Demons!

Well, I CAN FORGIVE Lisa&#039;s mom (in the Simpsons) for being naive. She will, after all, tell you that &quot;Maths was not one of her favourite subjects in School&quot;. What I find disgusting is when you meet &quot;enlightened&quot; scientists who will try to prove that Angels and Demons exist using scientific/mathematical methods. Here is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.johnlennox.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;one of them&lt;/a&gt;, an Oxford professor no less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Is it really that crazy to find such stuff more interesting and profound than angels?</i></p>
<p>Not at all, and you know it, of course. The crazy thing is that the majority of people (enlightened academics included) cannot understand that our perception (and by this I mean anything we can see, think, understand) is very limited.</p>
<p>It is limited for the reasons you point out but also because each one of us sees the world through a filter, the filter of his/her &#8220;knowledge/cognition&#8221;.</p>
<p>It is POSSIBLE to train this filter and (greatly) enlarge the things we can &#8220;see&#8221;.</p>
<p>A (good) musician can hear things I can&#8217;t. I am convinced that a good composer can &#8220;see&#8221; music; much more deeply than I can (I am an amateur classical guitarist).</p>
<p>A (good) film director can perceive a very complicated scene before it even gets realized.</p>
<p>A (good) mathematician can see lots of things in the world that are utterly invisible to the untrained mind. With mathematics we enlarge (and I can assure anyone it is the case!) the way we see and understand the world; and we can do so without even solving equations (contrary to the popular belief that a mathematician deals with symbols and equations).</p>
<p>So the point is: how can Lisa&#8217;s mom or George W Bush or <a href="http://www.tonyblairfaithfoundation.org/" rel="nofollow">Tony Blair</a> or any other similar moron claim they can understand the world and (what is worse) ACT FOOLISHLY/STUPIDLY because of their beliefs?</p>
<p>I am not asking them to learn mathematics or music. That would be too much to ask. I am asking them to try to understand that the way Homo Sapiens can perceive the world is much deeper than they can.</p>
<p>Furthermore, they should understand that, regardless of where Evolution actually takes us, there will always be something we cannot perceive; or at least that the possibility that this is the case exists; and that this is not because of Angels or Demons!</p>
<p>Well, I CAN FORGIVE Lisa&#8217;s mom (in the Simpsons) for being naive. She will, after all, tell you that &#8220;Maths was not one of her favourite subjects in School&#8221;. What I find disgusting is when you meet &#8220;enlightened&#8221; scientists who will try to prove that Angels and Demons exist using scientific/mathematical methods. Here is <a href="http://www.johnlennox.org/" rel="nofollow">one of them</a>, an Oxford professor no less.</p>
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