Comments on: Is Israel a Failed State? Musings on its 60th

By: michael

michael — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 00:49:54 +0000

I wouldn’t say Israelis are persecuted by their neighbours — they may be at war with them but persecution seems to imply they’re living amongst others who have total power over them and are using this power to make things miserable. This is different from an external conflict, especially since it’s actually not much of a war compared to the 30 or so other conflicts going on in the world.

By: Joel

Joel — Thu, 26 Jun 2008 01:29:47 +0000

Well we’re back to particularism and universalism again, aren’t we? Alan’s views of universalism should apply as much on a level of personal identity as on a level of national identity.

Whether particularism is a good idea is a big question. Having an identity can give meaning to individuals’ lives, can give them social support and emotional/psychological strength, and can often provide a positive sense of morality. On the other hand, identity has too often been formed at the denigration of others.

The truth is that this national identity’s there, with or without the State of Israel. The national identity already has a connection to the land. The question is whether the current state manifests (or develops) that identity well (an internal measure), and whether its external influence is positive overall.

People fled to Israel to escape persecution and to escape assimilation (when they wanted to retain a particularist identity for whatever reasons). DovBear seems to have argued that Israelis are still persecuted by their neighbours, more so than Jewish communities elsewhere. One could equally argue that Israelis are just as if not more assimilated in terms of Jewish identity (but not Israeli identity) than other Jewish communities, although this is certainly debatable and very difficult to measure.

By: michael

michael — Tue, 13 May 2008 07:20:41 +0000

Isn’t asking people to move away from local identity kind of like asking people to move away from family identity?
Of course a global identity is good but it can hardly come at the expense of all nationalism (maybe the more common petty kind). Plus any kind of drastic change whereby we have a world govt will be like the other drastic changes (Mao, Lenin, Hitler, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great) — which isn’t a good thing.

And if we are unified, a PLANET that’s about something could be even more frightening. Potentially, of course.

By: Alan

Alan — Tue, 13 May 2008 04:07:50 +0000

The problem lies in the whole concept of a state or nation in the first place. We need a global identity, which means moving away from individual nation states.

The aliens won’t come until we’re a unified planet, people, so get your acts together!